Jan 06
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mormons prop 8 - While making this video I was very taken back by the protesters and there veracity and anger. This is certainly a difficult issue for so many but it's important to remember that the LDS church has many very good members who are gay. Though they chose not to live the lifestyle, they still live with the attraction. So what's the problem when we all have something to deal with. We felt it was important to define the term marriage but unfortunately it morphed into something else. Like the label war calling us Haters, bigots, anti-gay, etc. It's actually the opposite and we need to help get that message out.
Kevin Hamilton wrote,
We did nothing wrong. In fact, we did everything that a civic minded American can and should do. I have put together a few facts that help me to appreciate our position better. For example:
1. Mormons make up less than 2% of the population of California . There are approximately 800,000 LDS out of a total population of approximately 34 million.
2. Mormon voters were less than 5% of the yes vote. If one estimates that 250,000 LDS are registered voters (the rest being children), then LDS voters made up 4.6% of the Yes vote and 2.4% of the total Proposition 8 vote.
3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) donated no money to the Yes on 8 campaign. Individual members of the Church were encouraged to support the Yes on 8 efforts and, exercising their constitutional right to free speech, donated whatever they felt like donating.
4. The No on 8 campaign raised more money than the Yes on 8 campaign. Unofficial estimates put No on 8 at $38 million and Yes on 8 at $32 million, making it the most expensive non-presidential election in the country.
5. Advertising messages for the Yes on 8 campaign are based on case law and real-life situations. The No on 8 supporters have insisted that the Yes on 8 messaging is based on lies. Every Yes on 8 claim is supported.
6. The majority of our friends and neighbors voted Yes on 8. Los Angeles County voted in favor of Yes on 8. Ventura County voted in favor of Yes on 8.
7. African Americans overwhelmingly supported Yes on 8. Exit polls show that 70% of Black voters chose Yes on
8. This was interesting because the majority of these voters voted for President-elect Obama. No on 8 supporters had assumed that Obama voters would vote No on 8.
8. The majority of Latino voters voted Yes on 8. Exit polls show that the majority of Latinos supported Yes on 8 and cited religious beliefs (assumed to be primarily Catholic).
9. The Yes on 8 coalition was a broad spectrum of religious organizations. Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, Orthodox Jews, Muslims all supported Yes on 8. It is estimated that there are 10 million Catholics and 10 million Protestants in California . Mormons were a tiny fraction of the population represented by Yes on 8 coalition members.
10. Not all Mormons voted in favor of Proposition 8. Our faith accords that each person be allowed to choose for him or her self. Church leaders have asked members to treat other members with "civility, respect and love," despite their differing views.
11. The Church did not violate the principal of separation of church and state. This principle is derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, although it has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court in recent years. The LDS Church is under no obligation to refrain from participating in the political process, to the extent permitted by law. U.S. election law is very clear that Churches may not endorse candidates, but may support issues. The Church as always been very careful on this matter and occasionally (not often) chooses to support causes that it feels to be of a moral nature.
12. Supporters of Proposition 8 did exactly what the Constitution provides for all citizens: they exercised their First Amendment rights to speak out on an issue that concerned them, make contributions to a cause that they support, and then vote in the regular electoral process. For the most part, this seems to have been done in an open, fair, and civil way. Opponents of 8 have accused supporters of being bigots, liars, and worse. The fact is, we simply did what Americans do we spoke up, we campaigned, and we voted.
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January 6th, 2009 at 00:03:46 Your that upset over the nice stach comment? You never joke around with your friends like that?
January 7th, 2009 at 00:26:45 When did you get your Labotomy? You poor misguided man, May God forgive you, NOT!HAHAHAHAHA
January 7th, 2009 at 00:49:44 You do realize that that first sentence makes absolutely NO sense, don't you? Why would "gay activists" complain about Unitarians? Are you normally this clueless or are you trying to be funny? As for arrests, it can be difficult for police to determine who--among the members of a large crowd--may be responsible for any particular act of vandalism. Seems like most claims of actual vandalism were overstated. Hanging signs on a fence is hardly permanent damage.
January 7th, 2009 at 01:12:43 I don't see any gay activists complaining about the unitarians and their support for Gay Marriage. The idea that people can't participate in this or that because they belong to this or religion is communist. The Gay Activists were blocking entrances and doing vandalism and they never got arrested. That tells me that have more rights than most people.
January 7th, 2009 at 01:35:42 you are a smug goober.
January 7th, 2009 at 01:58:41 I would prefer atheist over homosexuals, at least they are normal. World was doing fine until some gay had sex with monkey and spread the sex plague all over the world. Die disease ridden assholes, devil worshipers. Sodomy loving violent freaks.
January 7th, 2009 at 02:21:40 Israel is taking over our country little by little with the help of our government. Gays will eventually be thrown in jail for being gay and or be stoned to death. I'd like to see gays go against Israeli protesters that hate gays.
January 7th, 2009 at 02:44:39 And You all, "Our rights, our rights" Your not even willing to think about other solutions to the problem, and insist on doing it one way when the constitution is built of compromise and analysis of many ideas.
January 7th, 2009 at 03:07:38 Wow, you are clearly one obsessed kid. An armchair analyst might have a LOT to say about that. I'll just note that you've been posting here (and elsewhere) like a maniac. Once in a while you muster a coherent thought but mostly it's just "first amendment first amendment." You're in such a state of hysteria that any substantive dialog w/ the likes of you would be impossible. Goodbye and good luck (something tells me you'll need it.)
January 7th, 2009 at 03:30:37 Your mthod for 'equality' in essence destroys it, it is flawed fundamentally because it sacrifices the rights of others to further your own, that is anything but equal, thats tyranny.
January 7th, 2009 at 03:53:36 In essence, anyone who does not want to get involved in gay marriage, weither for personal beliefs or otherwise becomes open to penalty, as proven in cases in Massachusetts. A photographer was sues for not wanting to personally take pictures of a gay wedding. He offered to pass the job off to someone else who would be willing, but was still sued for descrimination because his personal beliefs conflicted.
January 7th, 2009 at 04:16:35 IT's a simple concept, nondescrimination laws work to protect various groups from descrimination. Marriage on it's own does not have these applied to it since it stands alone. Add Gay marriage to he def, and the laws come into effect to ensure it's equality, however, marriage is not a group, its a behavior, thus it is telling people what they have to think about it, which violates fee speech and religious liberty, thus violating 1st amendment rights.
January 7th, 2009 at 04:39:34 You like to ignore the fact that the way their pushing 'gay marriage' will infringe upon everyone elses first amendment rights. Let me guess, that must be a lie because someone besides a gay said it. Gays have the same laws protecting them as any group, race, etc... What you are doing now is extending that to behavior as well, because by changing the def of marriage it comes under the protection of those same laws, thus anyone who wants to force someone to get involved in a gay wedding can.
January 7th, 2009 at 05:02:33 The argument that marriage is essentially religious in nature has been made frequently (and not just on this thread). It's plainly a common belief. If that's true than the notion of limiting hetero ATHEISTS to something like civil unions (or common law marriages) would actually be quite reasonable. Of course, that kind of extreme action would be a hard sell legally (even if voters liked the idea, which well they might), because there is still an IMPLICIT church/state separation.
January 7th, 2009 at 05:25:32 "in a bigoted attempt to blame and condemn something for your insecurities." What the heck is that supposed to mean? Is English not your first languague or do you just get caught up in meaningless flourishes (and the sound of your own keyboard typing away) that you think posting inanities like the above makes you sound INTELLIGENT. Yes, my examples are something of a "leap" and are satirically meant. I was responding to a poster's comment that marriage is essentially "religious." (cont.)
January 7th, 2009 at 05:48:31 Fuck you.
January 7th, 2009 at 06:11:30 The mormon church has true teachings from God but the people and their leaders are hypocrites and they make their own rules and laws instead of following God's laws!! I am so embarrassed by that for being a Mormon!!
January 7th, 2009 at 06:34:29 Wow, good job vintageyellow71! I have to say I am very pleased you stood up to people and have it recorded, plus lived through it. And interesting that I can't tell if you're mormon or not, better left unsaid I think ;) that way you can be a sort of neutral. I hope you're doing well, may you be blessed in your endeavors! Have a great day!
January 7th, 2009 at 06:57:28 That's a huge leap, it amazes me how you pull something out of nothing in a bigoted attempt to blame and condemn something for your insecurities.
January 7th, 2009 at 07:20:27 Oh please. Typical.
January 7th, 2009 at 07:43:26 Hey, idiot, how many times does someone have to point out that, by your argument, atheists should not be permitted civil marriages either. For that matter, why should we permit marriage for non-majority religions. They're not REALLY married in the eyes of God, right? Why should we--as a majority Xtian society--permit marriage among Shintos, Animists, Muslims, or Jews for that matter. Yeah, that's the ticket. Marriage for Christians only.
January 7th, 2009 at 08:06:25 In which proves that your arguement is merely "Destroy religion, Gay supremacy".
January 7th, 2009 at 08:29:24 I don't think there is a way of getting through to you. That's what happens when people have small closed minds. 8 barely passed because people where misinformed. The church should get their money ready for the taxes they should be paying.
January 7th, 2009 at 08:52:23 So it doesn't count huh? Then why is it that people constantly bring up the churches past to try and discredit them and why do gays constantly reference gay 'hate crimes' That is a hypocritical statement. And all the chruch MEMBERS did was donate money, so you say money is what decided everything, then why did 8 pass? No raised more, both in state and out. ou don't have a leg to stand on stumpy.
January 7th, 2009 at 09:15:22 Yes, it was several church's who were involved, but the LDS church had the most involvement. They went crazy about it. Most of my family is in the church. My name is still in the church records. I just think that it's funny that they practiced polygamy and now they're trying to say how marriage should be. They were robbed and murdered and so on, but that has nothing to do with this. I feel for them, my family line goes back to Joseph Smith who was the first prophet of the church.